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Queriendo controlar un motor BLDC con control trapezoidal, al hacerlo girar con ...

@copilot why was my 100uF capacitor getting a bit hot when I was running a motor at 20V drawing approximately 3A?
1y
Capacitors getting warm or hot can indicate a few potential issues or mismatches in the application. Given the details you provided about your project, here are a few possible reasons why your 100uF capacitor was getting a bit hot when running a motor at 20V and drawing approximately 3A:
  1. Voltage Rating: Ensure that the voltage rating of the capacitor is well above the operating voltage. For a system running at 20V, a capacitor should ideally have a voltage rating of at least 25V to 35V or higher to provide a safety margin. If the capacitor's voltage rating was too close to or below 20V, it could lead to overheating due to the dielectric breakdown.
  2. Ripple Current: Motors, especially inductive loads, can generate significant ripple current when switching on and off. If the capacitor is not rated for a high enough ripple current, the internal heating caused by the ripple can cause the capacitor to get warm or hot.
  3. ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance): The ESR of a capacitor is a measure of its internal resistance. A high ESR means the capacitor will dissipate more power as heat ($P = I^2 \times ESR$) under load conditions, such as when smoothing the ripple current from a motor. Selecting a capacitor with a low ESR is crucial for applications with significant current draw.
  4. Capacitance Value: While less likely to cause heating on its own, a capacitor with too low of a capacitance value for the application might not be effective at filtering the ripple current, leading to higher load and stress on the capacitor. However, 100uF seems generally adequate for a 3A motor unless the motor's specific characteristics demand a higher capacitance.
  5. Physical Placement: Capacitors placed close to other heat-generating components, such as power resistors, regulators, or the motor itself, may also get warmer due to external heating.
  6. Capacitor Quality or Wear: A defective capacitor or one that has degraded over time (especially if it's an electrolytic capacitor, which has a limited lifespan) might show increased ESR and reduced performance, leading to overheating even under normal operating conditions.
To mitigate the heating issue:
  • Verify the capacitor's voltage rating and consider using one with a higher rating if necessary.
  • Check the ripple current rating of the capacitor and compare it with the estimated ripple generated by the motor. Consider a capacitor designed for high ripple current applications.
  • Choose a capacitor with a lower ESR.
  • Ensure the capacitor is placed away from heat sources and has adequate ventilation.
  • Inspect the capacitor for any signs of wear or damage and replace it if necessary.
Without more specific information about the type of capacitor (e.g., electrolytic, ceramic, tantalum) and its exact ratings, these are general suggestions. If you can provide further details, I can offer more tailored advice.
1y
@copilot so, for bulk capacitance is 3 capacitors in parallel of 470uF ok?
1y
Yes, using three capacitors in parallel of 470μF each for bulk capacitance is generally a good approach, especially for applications where you need a substantial amount of capacitance to stabilize the power supply voltage or to filter out low-frequency noise. When capacitors are connected in parallel, the total capacitance is the sum of all the individual capacitors' capacitances.
For your setup, the total bulk capacitance would be: Ctotal=C1+C2+C3=470μF+470μF+470μF=1410μFC_{total} = C_1 + C_2 + C_3 = 470\,\mu F + 470\,\mu F + 470\,\mu F = 1410\,\mu F
This setup is beneficial for several reasons:
  • Reduced Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR): Parallel capacitors can lower the overall equivalent series resistance (ESR), which is beneficial for reducing voltage drops and improving the efficiency of the circuit under high current loads.
  • Improved Frequency Response: Different physical sizes and types of capacitors may have different resonant frequencies. Combining them can help improve the overall frequency response of the bulk capacitance.
  • Heat Dissipation: Distributing the load among multiple capacitors can help manage heat distribution better than a single larger capacitor.
However, it's crucial to consider the physical space available on your PCB and the total voltage rating of each capacitor to ensure they match or exceed your circuit's requirements. Also, from your project specifics, it appears you haven't yet detailed your voltage requirements or other specifics related to the intended use of these capacitors in the 'Ultimate Peach Teleporter'. Assuming these capacitors are correctly rated and fit your physical constraints, this setup should work well.
If there's more to your project that affects the choice of bulk capacitance—such as specific voltage requirements or dynamic current demands—please let me know, and we can refine the suggestion further.
1y
so, for bulk capacitance is 3 capacitors in parallel of 470uF ok?
1y
@copilot I'm designing an ESC for a 500W BLDC motor, I'm expecting 10A to be drawn, how many capacitors are recommended to prevent any problems in the circuit? I'm using a bootstrap circuit and IRFB7734 MOSFETs. Trapezoidal control is implemented.
1y
Designing an Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) for a 500W BLDC motor is an interesting and complex project. Given that you're expecting a current draw of 10A and you're using a bootstrap circuit with IRFB7734 MOSFETs and implementing trapezoidal control, the use of capacitors is crucial for several aspects of the ESC's performance, such as filtering and decoupling.
Here's how to approach the capacitive elements of your design:
Bulk Capacitance
  • Purpose: To provide a reservoir of charge to handle the sudden demands of the motor and to smooth out the power supply's output.
  • Recommendation: For a 500W motor drawing 10A, a good starting point for bulk capacitance would be in the range of $1000 \mu F$ to $2000 \mu F$ per 10A of current draw. Thus, for a 10A system, you’d start with at least $1000 \mu F$ to $2000 \mu F$.
  • Voltage Rating: Choose capacitors with a voltage rating of at least 1.5 times the maximum voltage in your system to ensure reliability and longevity.
Decoupling Capacitors for MOSFETs
  • Purpose: To provide a local reservoir of charge to the MOSFETs to accommodate the rapid switching transients.
  • Recommendation: For each IRFB7734 MOSFET, use a low ESR ceramic capacitor, such as a $10 \mu F$ capacitor, closely placed to the MOSFET's source and drain terminals to help with switching noise.
  • Important Note: The bootstrap circuit will require an additional, smaller capacitor (common values are in the range of $0.1 \mu F$ to $1 \mu F$) for proper operation. This capacitor should also be chosen with a voltage rating above the maximum expected voltage.
Additional Considerations
  1. Layout: Ensure capacitors are placed as close as possible to their point of use, especially for decoupling capacitors around the MOSFETs. This minimizes loop areas and reduces electromagnetic interference (EMI).
  2. Type: Low Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) capacitors are preferred to handle high ripple currents and to improve the efficiency of your ESC. Aluminum Polymer and Tantalum capacitors can be good choices for bulk capacitance, while ceramic capacitors are ideal for decoupling purposes.
  3. Temperature Rating: Ensure all capacitors can operate within the expected temperature range of your system.
Example Connections
Given the data on your ESC design, here’s how you might approach connecting these capacitors:
  • For bulk capacitors:
    • Connect C_bulk:1 (positive terminal) to your circuit's power supply line (likely the V_in of your ESC).
    • Connect C_bulk:2 (negative terminal) to GND.
  • For MOSFET decoupling capacitors:
    • Connect C_decouple:1 (one terminal) to the Drain of IRFB7734.
    • Connect C_decouple:2 (the other terminal) to GND.
  • For the bootstrap capacitor:
    • Connect C_bootstrap:1 to the Bootstrap diode's anode or the high side MOSFET driver output.
    • Connect C_bootstrap:2 to the high side MOSFET's Source.
Please, adjust the values and connections according to your specific circuit layout and requirements. If you have further questions or need assistance with another part of your design, feel free to ask!
1y
@copilot is the SL32 1R030 a good choice as a inrush current limiter for a 20A esc?
1y
Selecting an inrush current limiter (ICL) like the SL32 1R030 for your 20A Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) requires considering a few key parameters. The SL32 1R030 is designed to limit inrush current, which can protect components in the circuit from potential damage due to sudden surges in current when power is first applied.
Key Parameters to Consider:
  1. Current Rating: The SL32 1R030 has a steady-state current rating close to 1A at 25°C, significantly lower than the 20A your ESC might draw under normal operating conditions. This rating is crucial because the ICL must handle the normal operating current of your device after the initial inrush has been limited.
  2. Resistance: Initially, this ICL has a low resistance (around 1 Ohm), which increases significantly as it heats up, thereby limiting the inrush current. Once the device is in steady state, the high resistance can significantly drop the voltage available for your ESC, which may not be desirable.
  3. Energy Rating: This ICL can handle a certain amount of energy (expressed in Joules) during the inrush event. Ensure this value matches or exceeds the expected inrush energy of your application to prevent damage to the ICL.
Analysis:
Given your 20A ESC requirement, the SL32 1R030 may not be the best choice due to its low steady-state current rating. For a 20A application, you would typically look for an ICL with a higher steady-state current capability to ensure it can handle the ESC's operational current without overheating or introducing too much voltage drop.
Recommendations:
  • Higher Current ICL: Look for an ICL specifically rated for higher currents, closer to your 20A requirement. These components will better support the current levels your ESC operates at while still providing inrush current protection.
  • External Inrush Current Limiting Circuit: If suitable ICLs are not available or practical, consider designing an external circuit with a power resistor and relay to limit inrush current manually. This setup can bypass the resistor after startup to eliminate unnecessary voltage drops during normal operation.
Conclusion:
While the SL32 1R030 is an effective inrush current limiter, its specifications might not align well with the requirements of a 20A ESC. It's critical to choose a component that can comfortably handle the operational currents of your project to ensure reliability and performance.
1y
The datasheet specifies a maximum of 30A at 65°C, where is the 1A maximum coming from?
1y
I apologize for the oversight. Let's correct that statement and re-evaluate the SL32 1R030 based on the accurate details you've pointed out.
The SL32 1R030 indeed has a rated maximum steady-state current of 30A at 65°C, not 1A as previously mentioned. This clarification changes the suitability analysis of using the SL32 1R030 as an inrush current limiter for a 20A Electronic Speed Controller (ESC).
Revised Analysis:
Given the corrected maximum steady-state current rating:
  • Current Rating: At 30A rated current at a temperature of 65°C, the SL32 1R030 can handle the operational current of a 20A ESC. This capability makes it well-suited in terms of current carrying capacity.
  • Thermal Considerations: At 65°C, it can handle 30A, which indicates it should be able to manage the thermal load generated by the current, especially under the operating conditions of a typical ESC. The thermal management aspect (cooling, airflow) around the ICL will still need to be considered in the circuit design to ensure it can operate effectively at these levels.
  • Inrush Current Limiting: With its initial low resistance that increases with temperature, the SL32 1R030 can effectively limit inrush current, protecting downstream components from potential damage. This characteristic makes it suitable for protecting the ESC and any connected batteries or power supplies from the surge when power is first applied.
Recommendations:
Considering the 30A maximum rating at 65°C, the SL32 1R030 appears to be a good choice as an inrush current limiter for a 20A ESC, assuming:
  • The operating environment allows for proper thermal management of the SL32 1R030.
  • The peak inrush current does not exceed the component's maximum capability.
  • The circuit design accounts for any voltage drops across the ICL during operation and ensures it does not negatively impact the ESC's performance.
Conclusion:
With the corrected understanding of the SL32 1R030's specifications, it can be considered suitable for use as an inrush current limiter in a system with a 20A ESC, provided the design considerations mentioned are adequately addressed.
1y
is the SL32 1R030 a good choice as a inrush current limiter for a 20A esc?
1y
@copilot how can I prevent inrush current in a circuit im making (electronic speed controller)?
1y
To prevent inrush current in an Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) circuit, you can employ several methods. Given the sparse details of your project, I'll suggest a generic approach that can be adjusted based on your specific requirements, including voltage levels, current ratings, and available space on your PCB.
1. NTC Thermistor (Inrush Current Limiter)
  • How it works: NTC thermistors decrease in resistance as they heat up, which happens as current flows through them at startup. Initially, the high resistance limits the inrush current. Once warmed up, their resistance drops to a minimal level, allowing normal operation of the circuit.
  • Implementation: Connect an NTC thermistor in series with the power supply line.
    • Connect NTC1:1 to Power_Supply:Positive.
    • Connect NTC1:2 to ESC:Power_In.
2. Pre-charge Circuit
  • How it works: A pre-charge circuit slowly charges the capacitors through a resistor before fully connecting them to the power supply. It consists mainly of a resistor and a relay.
  • Implementation:
    • In the initial state, the relay bypasses the main contactor, allowing current to flow through a resistor, limiting the inrush current.
    • After a slight delay, the relay switches, providing a direct path bypassing the resistor.
    • Connect Resistor_R1:1 to Power_Supply:Positive.
    • Connect Resistor_R1:2 to Capacitor_Input and Relay:Normally_Open.
    • Connect Relay:Common to ESC:Power_In.
    • Control the relay to switch after the capacitors have been pre-charged.
3. Soft-Start Circuit
  • How it Works: A soft-start circuit gradually increases voltage to the load over time, using a PWM signal or a controlled ramp-up voltage.
  • Implementation: Design a soft-start control circuit that gradually allows more current to flow to the ESC.
    • Using a PWM controller IC, control a MOSFET in series with your ESC's power input.
    • Connect PWM_Controller:Output to MOSFET:Gate.
    • Connect MOSFET:Source to Power_Supply:GND.
    • Connect MOSFET:Drain to ESC:Power_In.
Tips
  • Select components based on the maximum operating current and voltage of your ESC. For example, the NTC thermistor and pre-charge resistor should be rated for the expected inrush current.
  • Ensure that components have appropriate heat dissipation measures if they are expected to dissipate significant power, particularly for the NTC thermistor and pre-charge resistor.
  • For the soft-start circuit, carefully design the ramp-up time to balance between mitigating inrush current and not delaying the start-up too significantly.
Final Note
Each method has its trade-offs in terms of complexity, cost, and size. Depending on your specific needs (size constraints, cost targets, and electrical specifications), you may choose one method over the others.
Since I made generic suggestions without specific parts or values, please adjust component ratings (e.g., resistor and thermistor values, MOSFET ratings) based on your circuit's voltage and current requirements. Feel free to provide more details if you need further assistance with component selection or circuit design on Flux!
1y
@copilot Queriendo controlar un motor BLDC con control trapezoidal, al hacerlo girar con un ancho de pulso del 60% está todo bien, después haciendo pruebas y bajando el ancho de pulso a 0, para luego regresar el ancho de pulso a 260 y hacerlo girar otra vez, en la mayoría de las ocasiones el motor gira, pero hay veces en las que se detiene y emite un pitido (consume 2-3 veces más amperaje que cuando normalmente gira), esto sucede sin importar el paso en el que se busque reanudar el giro y parece ser aleatorio, las conexiones parecen estar bien, qué puede ser la causa del problema ?
1y
El comportamiento que describes con el motor BLDC (Brushless DC motor) al controlarlo mediante modulación por ancho de pulso (PWM, por sus siglas en inglés), específicamente cuando experimentas problemas al variar el ancho de pulso, puede estar relacionado con varios factores. Aquí te ofrezco algunas posibles explicaciones y sugerencias para diagnosticar y resolver el problema:
  1. Calibración del Controlador de Motor BLDC:
    • Algunos controladores de motor BLDC requieren una secuencia de inicialización o calibración específica para establecer correctamente las fases del motor y la retroalimentación de los sensores de posición, si los hay. Específicamente, restablecer el ancho de pulso a cero y luego a un valor específico puede estar afectando la calibración o la sincronización del controlador con el motor.
  2. Inestabilidad en el Algoritmo de Control Trapezoidal:
    • El control trapezoidal, que secuencia fases en el motor BLDC, puede volverse inestable con cambios bruscos en el ancho de pulso, especialmente si la lógica de control no maneja adecuadamente transiciones desde un ciclo de trabajo muy bajo (o cero) a uno más alto.
  3. Problemas de Alimentación Eléctrica:
    • Una caída en la tensión de alimentación o una fuente de alimentación inadecuada podría causar comportamientos erráticos. Este escenario es más plausible considerando el aumento en el consumo de corriente ($2-3$ veces más) que mencionas. Verifica que la fuente de alimentación sea capaz de proporcionar corrientes más altas sin caídas significativas de voltaje.
  4. Sobrecarga o Bloqueo del Motor:
    • El motor podría estar intentando arrancar bajo una carga que supera su capacidad, especialmente al tratar de reiniciar con un ciclo de trabajo alto. Esto podría explicar el aumento en el consumo de corriente y el pitido, que puede ser un indicador de sobrecarga.
  5. Desajuste de la Frecuencia PWM:
    • Verifica que la frecuencia de tu señal PWM sea adecuada para tu motor y controlador. Una frecuencia muy baja o muy alta podría causar problemas de rendimiento.
Sugerencias para Solucionar el Problema:
  • Revisión y Pruebas: Realiza una revisión de las conexiones eléctricas, asegurando que todo esté correctamente conectado y no haya daños en los cables o terminales.
  • Diagnóstico con Osciloscopio: Utiliza un osciloscopio para monitorear la señal PWM y las respuestas del motor durante la transición del ancho de pulso. Esto podría ayudar a identificar si hay problemas en la generación de la señal PWM.
  • Fuente de Alimentación: Asegúrate de que la fuente de alimentación sea adecuada y esté funcionando correctamente. Sería ideal experimentar con una fuente de poder que tenga una capacidad de corriente mayor a la que se está utilizando actualmente.
  • Documentación del Controlador: Consulta la documentación técnica de tu controlador BLDC para cualquier recomendación específica sobre secuencias de inicialización o calibración, y verifica si hay algún parámetro que necesite ser ajustado.
  • Experimentación: Experimenta cambiando la frecuencia del PWM o ajustando la rampa de aceleración del motor para ver si mejora la estabilidad durante el arranque.
Es importante probar estas soluciones de manera sistemática para identificar cuál es la causante del comportamiento irregular.
1y


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